So How Does it Work?

[Johar]

Here's an idea I have been mulling over regarding what actually happens during a deja experience.

The Eidolon is IN the film of its life, effectively on the cinema screen, reenacting it's life over and over again, with refinements.

The Daemon is WATCHING the film, effectively and audience member whilst still being part of the cinema complex which is our consciousness, thus able to interact with the Eidolon to guide its refinements.

Now, at times of brief lowered sentience, the Eidolon becomes an audience member, watching itself on the screen.

This causes the strange sensation of being IN the film (the here and now) whilst also WATCHING itself. It is that strange twofold experience that is extremely difficult to describe. The Eidolon knows it is in the here and now but also experiences that sensation of knowing what's coming next, as though watching itself.

If you think about it this way, this also has applications to NDE incidents.

Let me know what you all think!

[A Dark Philosopher]

Johar: Yes, I see. A similar concept to my Where Is The Internet? analogy for CtCw.
The film is observed on the screen but between the screen and the projector it exists, potentially, everywhere, in Implicate Order style. The concentrated sentience of an observer (or indeed the participatory Eidolon) thus decoheres the atoms into a perceived reality, but in lowered sentience one can re-assimilate to the consciousness wave and the duality of subjective consciousness will mean one can view the film subjectively AND objectively at the same time.
The only problem I see is: Are most Deja experiences felt at times of lowered sentience?
Oh, and who is the projectionist?

[Johar]

Yes, Karl, it works very well within the CtCW framework, doesn't it.

I can't answer the question regarding lowered sentience for anyone else excpet myself. My experience of deja vu's have been during very mundane moments when I'm concentrating on something in a relaxed state. This, in itself, is a state of mildly lowered sentience and this is when my deja vu's occur.

And with regards to your last question; Who is the projectionist? Can I ask, is there one?

[A Dark Philosopher]

Hopefully we can start a POLL then.
And get Art Funkhouser to chip in!
*waves at Art*

I'd be interested to know if Deja Experiences occur in moments of lowered sentience......................
What says everyone????

[woodsprite]

In my experience deja vu happens in a completely ordinary sentience. Only a couple of weeks ago I had the straightforward deja vu sense of having experienced something before whilst driving. I would hope that I was fully sentient at the time! This was the fleeting sensation of having seen something before - in this case birds flying across the sky as I covered a certain portion of time and space. Nothing spectacular, quite mundane.

I experience precognition differently, usually in the form of dreams which I then experience whilst awake. These have always indicated a time of significant change.

As usual Jo, your description is completely at one with how I have interpreted the subject.

[A Dark Philosopher]

In my experience deja vu happens in a completely ordinary sentience. Only a couple of weeks ago I had the straightforward deja vu sense of having experienced something before whilst driving. I would hope that I was fully sentient at the time! This was the fleeting sensation of having seen something before - in this case birds flying across the sky as I covered a certain portion of time and space. Nothing spectacular, quite mundane.
I experience precognition differently, usually in the form of dreams which I then experience whilst awake. These have always indicated a time of significant change.
As usual Jo, your description is completely at one with how I have interpreted the subject.

Hey Di, good to see you back here, thanks for the emails etc, hope you are ok
As JoJo is valiantly treating the needy on nights I'll say that I'm getting more and more interested about the level of sentience within not just deja experiences but also anything vaguely precognitive. Now, using your example of full sentience while driving, I expect you, like me, have been idly driving along warbling to some Thrash Metal or somesuch, or have found simply been lost in some mind chatter to yourself and found that you were almost home with no conscious memory of the roundabout or traffic lights etc that you know are between where you left and where you are now, but seemingly you must have negotiated them effectively as you are almost home! This is a level of lowered sentience in itself, mild concentration or introspective dialogue can alter the level of consciousness. So maybe the sentience wasn't as full as you thought it was. But then maybe it was, only you can know that. Hmmmm, more for me to ponder over, thanks Di.

[A Dark Philosopher]

Cam: Good to hear from you my good man.

Perhaps, when mundane activities are involved, we can move into and do what we are doing more on automatic pilot.

We ALL do this EVERY second of every day in the most important aspect of our living body.............................it's called BREATHING!
Now, simply by mentioning BREATHING, you are (as you read this) CONSCIOUS of your own breathing, but you were not, prior to reading this, and haven't been for goodness knows how much of the day. The unconscious and subconscious parts of the brain deal with FAR more activity that pure waking consciousness.

I'm sure JoJo will add more to your comment Cam when she gets off her night shifts, so thank you for adding your deja experience thoughts.

[Johar]

Thanks Di, Cam and Karl, for your comments and feedback.

Di, Glad to see you back Petal, hope you're feeling a little better.

In response to your comment I would agree with Karl that although you were concentrating during driving you may well have been in a relaxed state which is what creates the mildly trance like state of lowered sentience. If I know you at all, I'm sure you were thinking of many other things at the time, so although concentrating on your driving you may well have been on auto pilot, as Cam described. What do you think?

Cam, your description of doing the washing up again suggests an activity requiring some level of concentration whilst in a relaxed state but also allowing your mind to wander. This again sets up the mild trance state, allowing you to open up to a deja experience of being in the here and now but being acutely aware of seeing it unfold in front of you; the daemons perspective. The physical reaction you experienced is really interesting as it demonstrates the very strange and 'off kilter' feeling that deja creates.

What I'm getting from this is that when we are in a situation that requires some concentration but doesn't 'fill' our brains with too much activity, our mind relaxes and can start to 'wander'. Whilst doing this our perception widens, allowing more access to the daemonic side of our consciousness and this is when we perceive the actual film of our lives, the deja experience.

Thanks again for your comments Guys, fascinating stuff!

[woodsprite]

Hmmm... I agree about the autopilot idea but I was driving to a meeting and was no doubt thinking about that and considering what had happened earlier in the day. Maybe that's the key - my mind was probably multi-tasking as always, flitting from one thing to the next with an interweaving of thoughts which would allow the daemon's influence to become part of that tapestry. It could have been a bit like when my computer is carrying out one of the many background tasks I have it scheduled to do - usually I'm unaware of it but occasionally there's a tiny glitch which makes me aware that an icon is telling me something is getting an update. The fact that the deja vu was mundane would back this idea. What do you think?

[rafromca]

I'm enjoying the conversation folks, but I keep thinking if deja vue's are mundane, it just might mean you have unconsciously experienced "whatever" before and you are just now becoming aware of it, and there is no strong memory that you can access. So in fact it isn't a case of lived before but experienced before and it wasn't all that exciting (i.e. mundane) so the memory is weak. For deja vue's/vecu to suggest recurrence they should not be mundane but quite notable/unforgettable.

JO-Jo I like your idea of watching a movie screen and Di your idea of a computer doing background functions to describe what you both experience. It strikes me that we always latch on to our technology to explain ourselves to ourselves. We operate as a machine, a camera, a tape or disc, a computer, a car, a hologram, a radio/tv receiver. Makes me wonder: what haven't we invented yet? Because surely we will operate in that way some day. It makes me think that if we imagine it. it will come into being. I can understand why people take to this idea of our thoughts bringing something into existence. But can we control our thoughts? Sorry if I diverge too much. I enjoyed hearing your thoughts.