Announcement - Lucia visits London!

[Anthony Peake]

Hi Paul,

Thanks for reviving this thread. Clearly I got lost over Christmas and I didn't get round to replying. Your questions are excellent ones and I am sure that the good Austrian Doctors will check these out in due course. Both questions bring up some interesting "observations". I assume that it is the intensity and stroboscopic effect of the light that brings about the changes in perception. I guess a similar question could be asked in regard to Hemi-Synch in that a hearing impaired person would similarly not have the same changes as a person who had perfect hearing.

Similarly with the shared experiences. I know that it has been reported that DMT can sometimes generate shared perceptions as, indeed can Hemi-Synch. I know that some of Dr. Rick Strassman's subjects reported shared experiences and similarly in his My Big Toe Trilogy Tom Campbell describes similar experiences. For me this is evidence that we really do go to "another place" during these experiences. Indeed the only difference between dream states and conensual "reality" is that the latter is exactly that, consensual. If a dream state was also shown to be consensual then who is to say which reality is "real" and which one an hallucination?

Tony

[Sisyphus]

I think its clear the prohibitive pricing of "Lucia" means its not for the consumer market.

Cannot honestly recommend anyone to buy it at those prices when for instance you can achieve an OBE through other methods which have minimal costs. (meditation, lucid dreaming cds, certain drugs, hemi-sync/binaural beats, to train the brain into different states etc)

Its a shame because with a technology that guarantees 100% OBE experiences then you could have many many people investigating this and a far more systematic exploration and study of this phenomena.

[Anthony Peake]

Hi Sisyphus,

I do agree with you on this. Lucia really is very expensive. I am informed that the development costs were very high and they are not cheap to produce. Maybe when more are sold production costs will come down. For the moment the market will only be the very rich, organisations, or groups who club together to buy one. However it must be said that a Lucia, once purchased and the purchaser becomes a trained license holder (the training is part of the cost) they have a machine that they can set up in private practice and charge per session, say £20. With the right degree of interest the machine may pay for itself in a year or two ...

Cheers

Tony

[Sisyphus]

I'm reluctant to be more critical because i dont know more about their work and the costs involved but...

From how they describe what happens (in your interview with them), basically it is a certain frequency they tap into which brings about a certain state within the brain using stroboscopic lights technique. I've used a "mind-machine" before - it didnt cost 18,000. It cost £130 at the time.

I have a question though - Did Dr. Engelbert Winkler and Dr Dirk Proeckl *patent* this particular (or set of frequencies depending on which type of experience you desire) frequency? If all it is is stroboscopic lights pattern/frequency then it is something you can program for other light-based mind machines.......hrmmm. So what happens if someone buys one of their machines, is able to decypher if you will the frequency required and then merely programs this into something like a Proteus mind machine.

I'm just speculating as i have not seen Lucia in action.


So naturally this makes me think very poorly of them (of course i could be way off base here). The huge cost for something that is merely a light pattern gives me the impression that they are exploiting people for profit...for money not advancement of human knowledge. Whatever happened to the pursuit of science to increase knowledge and understanding of the human experience..it seems to be "science for sale" instead.

If they managed to isolate the specific frequencies for the types of experience (extreme relaxation, different meditation states, obe) then they could have sold this to mind machine manufacturers perhaps?(Instead of creating only their machine (Lucia) which could produce these experiences).

Or is this too dangerous? That is, too dangerous for the consumer market but ok to have in medical departments with trained practitioners operating it.

Much of what i am saying is speculation, just thinking out loud. So dont crucify me for asking questions

[MAC]

Sisyphus: Hmmm ... "thinking out loud" ... non-censored critical thinking perhaps.

Interesting points ... thanks for posting them !

All the best

Cam

[Derkein]

Completely agree Sisyphus.
As many of the existing much cheaper mind machines (and PC programs) are programmable, is likely they are not the originators of these particular 'sequences' either, or if they are, then there is just 'something' added to make them unique.

[Roy]

I have a machine called a "mindlab" which I purchased over a decade ago from "lifetools". It was a hundred pounds or so in cost. I intended to post about it on this forum anyway, then I saw this thread. I have had some very interesting experiences with the mindlab. The same company also sold a more programmable type of mindlab, and a lucid dreaming machine. I will be happy to post more details, but I am new to the forum and my posts are not actually appearing on the forum, so I will maybe write more when my posts can be seen.