Cheating the Ferryman, Is there Life After Death, The Daemon.

This is the forum for all who are interested in the theory of what may happen to consciousness at the point of death as explained in the books 'Is There Life After Death - The Extraordinary Science Of What Happens When You Die' and The Daemon.

Déjà Rêve (Already Dreamed)

Deja Vu - that strange feeling that one has lived this moment before - is recognised as being the most common 'psychic' experience. So what exactly is Deja Vu? Can it simply be a confusion of perception or is there something much more important taking place? This is the place to record your own experiences of this mysterious phenomenon ... maybe even join in a very important world-wide survey that will attempt to finally explain this mystery.

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Re: Déjà Rêve (Already Dreamed)

Postby YouAreDreaming » Wed May 26, 2010 7:51 pm

Hi Anthony,

Thanks for the ideas, and as you know the BIMAX certainly sits at center stage within the answer. Every interface needs a screen by which to render data onto for the purpose of experience. And both with waking and sleep based perception, there is no escaping a requirement for a screen by which data is rendered.

Which takes us to the ITLAD/CTF as memory. If we deconstruct memory into data storage, what we have is a central database by which we upload and download data in the form of memory that must then be rendered onto the BIMAX. Because the human brain is computational, in that it must calculate and render data into a coherent experience. We know the physical brain is natures Quantum Super-Computer. Hameroff, Penrose, Musha to name a few have brought real science to the nature of a computative organic system like the human brain.

In relation to the BIMAX, it is the equivalent of a "Reality" rendering farm that must take this "data" and process it until a coherent BIMAX experience can be observed by the "Self". What the self is experiencing is information gained by a sensory apparatus which in turn stimulates neurons that basically facilitate the data processing, or pre-rendering. I akin this to what Hameroff talks about when he describes incoherent energies (thermal, electromagnetic, chemical) being transformed into coherent photons which starts the quantum realization of a biological computative system.

Once the information is reduced to a "binary" code, it is then digitally processed onto the BIMAX and "rendered" into the experience. At least this is my digital spin on the BIMAX based on the computative reality found in our grey matter. Which leaves us with one particular component of interest:

The DATASTREAM.

In ITLAD/CTF we are looking at the source of the stream being attributed to memory, which again implies a form of data storage. In our "waking physical reality" the datastream clearly comes from the "Objective Physical Universe" in the form of varying degrees of energies in different states, light waves, vibrations, chemical reactions, thermal dynamics etc. At least, that is the obvious interpretation of what the source of the datastream is.

This changes dramatically when we look at the same process but from the perspective of a dream. And this is what really interests me, and you'll no doubt see the connection to the BIMAX especially if we add some data processing to the mix.

What makes a "Dream" different from "Physical Reality" is only two things: The Datastream and The Interface.

I'll need to break down the BIMAX a little into data processing and rendering to give this a fitting example:

The Physical Reality Model:
1.) DATASTREAM = Potential Information in the form of Physical Matter / Energy.
2.) The Interface = Five Physical Senses [ the body ]

3.) Data Interpretation = Converting the data into a computative language.
4.) Data processing = pre-rendering data sorting and processing.
5.) Data Rendering = The process of turning the data into a coherent experience.
6.) The Screen = The BIMAX.
7.) The Audience = The Self.

This is just a loose model, but what is interesting is what happens to this model when we switch it to a "Dream" as the source of the DATASTREAM.

The Dream Model:
1.) DATASTREAM = Organized Thoughts
2.) The Interface = Virtualized Five Physical Senses.

3.) Data Interpretation = Converting the data into a computative language.
4.) Data processing = pre-rendering data sorting and processing.
5.) Data Rendering = The process of turning the data into a coherent experience.
6.) The Screen = The BIMAX.
7.) The Audience = The Self.

In the Dream Model, there is no physical source of the datastream in the form of pre-determined energy and matter that one can just sense. It reduces to what I view as organized thought.

The interface also changes dramatically, as in order to experience the organize thought in a self-similar manner within this model, once needs to create an avatar in the virtual dream world where-by the five physical sense actually become five virtual senses.

3-7 are all still parts of the data processing and data rendering component of a digital BIMAX. Perhaps a holodeck version of the BIMAX is more fitting in this example, but you get the idea. Data -> Interface -> Processing -> Rendering -> Experience.

Now in the context of "precognitive dreams" and the actualization into a "physical reality" we have the original source of the initial datastream, which in this case is: Organized Thought.

A lot to think about is what I think ;)
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Re: Déjà Rêve (Already Dreamed)

Postby Elew » Wed Oct 20, 2010 12:36 am

ArtFunk wrote:The term "déjà rêve" (already dreamt) has a number of meanings and it would be very worthwhile, I think, if we could come up with ways to differentiate them. I suspect Ian is here using it in the sense of "a precognitive dream that later becomes true in the form of a déjà experience". It could just as well, though, mean a dream in which one is conscious of having had that dream before. It can also refer to what are otherwise called "recurring dreams", ones that many people are troubled by, especially when they are associated with outer events that are negative in some way. One can have both déjà vécu and déjà visité experiences in dreams where one is reliving a situation met in a previous dream or visiting a locale that one recognizes from previous dreams. Sorry to "muddy the water" but I think it is valuable for us (and the world) to be clear about what we (and they) are talking about. I have long pondered this conundrum but have found no good solutions yet. I'll be happy for suggestions and input as to what names we should use for these various forms of déjà rêve.

I hope everyone here enjoyed a wonderful Christmas or Chanukah and are looking forward to a fine new year!

Art


Yes, this is exactly what I come up against so often. Thank you for writing it out here.

Ian, I am glad you began this thread...I will have to read over everyones posts.
I know you are working so much right now...but maybe soon. :)
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Re: Déjà Rêve (Already Dreamed)

Postby Elew » Wed Oct 20, 2010 1:43 am

Hal Mercier wrote:It's wonderful to find a group of people who take this area of human experience as seriously as I do, and who have a balanced, scientific approach.


I feel this way too...it was nice to read your dream.
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Re: Déjà Rêve (Already Dreamed)

Postby Elew » Wed Oct 20, 2010 5:16 am

YouAreDreaming wrote:I am ever grateful that you are all so open to discussing these states openly on this forum, I believe in time, the worth of these conversations cannot be measured for those they will help.

@Espiralli I agree that we need to identify the grade of these dreams in order to label them with a relevant term.

Some grades come to mind:
1.) literal precognition which clearly translates as an exact match to reality and the dream. This would be the clearest memory pattern match.

It then needs to cascade into more degraded forms.
2.) Semi-Literal precognition where only some details are accurate and others are not.

3.) Symbolic precognition where the symbology of the dream is an abstraction of actual event. Symbols aren't clear of what they mean until the real event clarifies them. I have one example of symbolic dreaming:

I had a dream where an old man was teaching me to drive a forklift on a dirt road in a forest. Another man stopped me, he was angry and enraged told me to get off the forklift and give him my boots.

Later in life, I would be working at a metal factory and driving forklift. Because I drove the forklift, I didn't always wear steel toe boots but there was an inspection that day so the older foreman gave me someone else's boots to wear. However, the person when they came to work wasn't very happy and stopped me, yelled at me to give him his boots. He was quite pissed, so I had to give them to him right then and there in the yard. What a dick.

The dream was a clear symbolic representation.

4.) 3rd-Person precognitive dream, the kind where you either float or just observe a dream, but are not the actual participant. This is rare for me, but has occurred, mostly its always first person.

5.) Lucid Precognitive Dream - This one is really getting past the literal into a whole new realm of the experience where you in a clear, lucid and conscious state, observe a dream, before it comes true. This by far blows away the literal one.

6.) Changed Lucid Precognitive Dream - Where you change the dream, and the changes happen here. That is kind of as far as I got with my exploration of this state. I think that is probably the goal for each of us if we were to become adepts at this. I'd say its a natural progression but rare.

How this translates into déjà rêve is the elegance of language. Not being an expert I'll leave that up to Art and others who may find some more academic idioms to describe these states.

What we also need to work on, is how to consciously induce desired states related to déjà rêve. And learn to become more proficient at it. That is something I want to definitely get back into as I have been away from active lucid precognitive dreaming for quite some years now.

I have to go to sleep, so need to end the post. I'll try to visit a bit more. You are all awesome.


When you come back...
But I can continue. Your list is not quite the same as mine, but they blend in well...so I can follow yours too.

I tend to see them more in the shapes and layout. But the first person, 3rd person, lucid and active lucid...literal, symbolic...most things match well.

I have at least one third person lucid precognitve written in the Some Experiences thread...'The Pink Station Wagon' dream.

But I have to somehow add to your list, the global dreams. And double dreams.

The global lucid precognitive dreams, seem like first /third person. Where as I am actually there, in the first person, experiencing what is around. Although no one there notices me, and I cannot do anything to interact with the happenings. I can open doors, touch, taste, smell, and move things, but the actual event that I am witnessing has the third person 'ness' with it.

And the Double dreams, are being in two dreams, at the same time. One overlaying the other, and most times I can shift into one or the other...but I have been practicing staying in both. Sometimes I feel something in one, and will shift into it to see and feel what is happening there. But the doubleness itself sometimes will show precognitive overlays that cannot be understood until the happen physically.
Like in the Fish Beaching...I was on pavement, and in the double was sand...and at the same time it was stepping on all of the empty sea creature bodies.
But as that could be seen when it physically happened, in the images of it, and apparently to physically be there, the beaching was so huge that it did appear as a paved road, of dead sea creatures.

The double dreams are very interesting to me. I have been practicing since about 2006. Staying in both, or moving from one into the other, and feeling/testing/finding out where the edges are of the overlay.

I have tended to call my list local, global, other people's dreams, and things like that. More to specify which area type they are. But as Cochitlehua and I have found, I tend to notice places, where he notices people...

It is sometimes very confusing to speak about, because there are so many ways precognitive dream happen...Then they each also come with the Deja feeling when it happens physically, but now there are all of the various Deja reve differences that Art has mentioned too. And he is so right, because they all happen, and sometimes there can be more then one in each dream.

I feel that maybe there are words for the subtle differences in dreaming, but the English language does not seem to have those words.

But I am wondering, if anything ever came about with the separation of the various types of Deja Reve...names for them?

With myself, I have always separated it slightly...noticing the Deja feeling, as the feeling of realization.
And then that Deja feeling would seem to be from whichever already possibly named event.

I mean, before hearing the words Deja Reve, if I am in a precognitve dream, that when it happens I get the Deja feeling. I would just call it that. A precognitive with a Deja feeling.

And if it is a waking Deja moment, I would call it that. But they really are not specific enough to speak with other people.
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Re: Déjà Rêve (Already Dreamed)

Postby YouAreDreaming » Fri Dec 03, 2010 5:46 am

Hi Elew,

I just re-read this thread. Amazing how much everyone here is growing in terms of this evolving awareness into the nature of deja phenomena. Ironic that is the Christmas season that I seem to like to venture into this thread.

I can only remark about the journey we are all on as being quite liberating and this forum really is a little treasure trove on the internet :D
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Re: Déjà Rêve (Already Dreamed)

Postby Elew » Fri Dec 03, 2010 6:47 pm

I felt that it was... :D
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