Emerged "Evolved Daemon" Prototype ?

[MAC]

What do you think of the idea of Jesus Christ as a prototype of the emerged "evolved Daemon", i.e., the Jesus of Nazareth "Eidolon" bringing forth that which was within, his inner "Daemon", resulting in the eventual emergence of a changed sublimed personality, one "Jesus Christ", in that case ... or something along those lines ... given Tony's theories ?

All the best

Cam

[MAC]

This is the forum for all who are interested in the theory of what may happen to consciousness at the point of death as explained in the books 'Is There Life After Death - The Extraordinary Science Of What Happens When You Die' and The Daemon.

In fairness to Tony the Forum here has a dedicated purpose.

Hopefully this thread ties into that purpose.

All the best

Cam

[Cochitlehua]

[MAC]

Cochitlehua : I wonder if it is the historical person of Jesus Christ that's so important here, or is it more important to decipher what his life portrayal, via the stories in the New Testament, may symbolize in terms of a principle or principles by which to live.

It's such a task I've found addressed in detail in the writings of Aster Barnwell, that I've briefly mentioned, elsewhere. That's the best reply I can come up with in response to your comment:

we would have to narrow down what Jesus Christ we are talking about.

No matter what the historical life may have actually been, a more relevant question "may" be, are there important lessons to be drawn from the stories depicting his life and could those stories actually be pointing us towards something about ourselves and our own potential ( all of us ) such that drawing out the relevant lessons and incorporating or living the very principles being pointed to, in our own lives, is what counts, i.e., not a relationship to the historical person ?

Not sure if that helps, but it's the best I can offer at the moment in the way of a comment.

I've been pondering Aster Barnwell's material suggesting a psychological or psychospiritual framework that may be symbolized in those stories.

Still pondering.

All the best

Cam

[Anthony Peake]

In all fairness I have to accept that this section was created to discuss "Gnosticism" and we cannot discuss Gnosticism without discussing Jesus. Thus far every comment made on this thread has been reasonable and balanced and I am really pleased with this.

I accept that I write about the Gnostic Gospels in ITLAD, I regularly appear on the Gnostic radio station Aeon Byte and only yesterday I submitted another article to Andre Philip Smith's periodical The Gnostic. As such as long as the discussion continues in this balanced way I am happy for it to continue. However if I feel at any time that it is deteriorating into something less than a balanced and fair-minded discussion I will have no option but to stop it.

Those of you who know me personally know that any form of censorship is totally against my philosophy. To have to "pull" a discussion or debate is not in the spirit of free speech.

I have to admit that I am still rather nervous about this thread but let us see where it takes us.

Leonard: You really should read both books. As many will tell you, the discussions on this Forum have touched on a really small part of the subjects I discuss in both books. I suspect that many of your questions will be answered after you have finished them.

MAC: I have yet to read the F. Aster Barnwell books you kindly sent me. This is in no way deliberate, it is just with the writing of three books and various articles I have little spare time for additional reading. However I really must settle down to doing so in the next few weeks. I am sure that I will find both books fascinating.

COCH: I totally agree with your point about which Jesus we are talking about here. This gets to the heart of my concerns. Even the word "Jesus" brings about some very emotive reactions in some people.

[Cochitlehua]

[Nimborio]

"because it makes sense to me that a God of all things would be jealous of that. Would you be jealous if people you created denied you and started bowing in front of a carved rock?"

So an omnipotent and omniscient creator of the universe can be "jealous" .... Jealous of what? A carved rock! Leonard your God need to "Get a life" if he/she/it gets in a rage about members of he/she/its creation worshipping anything other then he/she/it.

Question. If this being is omnipotent and omniscient it is, by implication (and cast iron logic) responsible for everything. This includes the circumstances whereby a group of pagans worship a carved rock. As such God is responsible for those people doing this. Or are we going to fall back on the hoary old "escape clause" of "Free Will"?

But a further question is: Why does God want to be worshipped? Don't you find that a bit odd. The creator of the universe is only happy when his sentient creations are mindlessly worshiping him? To me that suggests a very human failing...... insecurity (as does ranting on and on about being a "jealous god" (another thought "I am a jealous God" suggests by its structure that there are other Gods who are not? Does this explain why it is that in the original Hebrew version of Genesis the writers - human writers we assume - use the plural "Elohim" when discussing a seemingly singular God?)

From your rant about Catholicism I can only assume that your brand of Christianity is Puritanical in nature. As we know Puritanism (or more accurately Calvinism) lead to Predestination. The idea that as God knows everything he knows who is saved and who is not. This then leads to the belief that in this world God will reward "the saved" by making them better off and giving them an easy life whereas the poor and the downtrodden are in this position because God knows that they are destined for Hell Fire. This then allowed the "kindly" Puritans and Calvinists to set up their own Theocracies from which came such "Christian" systems as Apartheid. Lovely "God Fearing" people eh!

Religion is dangerous. Any religion. If you "believe" that your position is right and everybody else is wrong based upon the supposed "word of God" as contained in any "Holy Book" then you are on a dangerous road in which the destination is the killing of those who do not believe you own brand of "irrational nonsense".

In my life I have engaged "believers" in open discussion about their beliefs (usually after they have approached me with those really weird smiles they have and words such as "Have you accepted the Lord Jesus as your saviour?" or some other similar confrontational statement). At first they listen to what you have to say. However if you "know your stuff" as I believe I do as I am an ex- "Born Again" Christian myself (happened when I was a very vulnerable and shy teenager who was looking for something to "belong to" and the weird "smilers" attempted to brain-wash me). What happens is fairly quickly the smiles harden and usually because they cannot rationally argue their position (because it is impossible) they always fell back to screaming out that I was some form of pawn of Satan sent to tempt them away from Jesus or such like rubbish. Then it got down to "Let us pray for you because without our prayers your going to hell".

You know what, If Heaven is full of people like that I prefer to take my chances in hell fire!

[MAC]

Now you are saying it is more important to utilize the principles and teachings of the new testament? I am thoroughly informed of what is in the new testament, I began studying it when I was 14, and if you use wording that sounds preachy to me, I will engage you.

There are infinite amounts of teachings and cultural principals out there, besides the words that are attributed to Jesus or the canonical bible.

Cochitlehua: No intention to be "preachy". Sorry if it came off that way.

I'll edit the posting to add the word "may" in the beginning to match where the term was used later on ( ... now edited ... an example of my nonlinear approach to Forum postings ).

Later in the post I originally wrote:

No matter what the historical life may have actually been, the more relevant question may be, are there important lessons to be drawn from the stories depicting his life and could those stories actually be pointing us towards something about ourselves and our own potential ( all of us ) such that drawing out the relevant lessons and incorporating or living the very principles being pointed to, in our own lives, is what counts, i.e., not a relationship to the historical person ?

I'm not thoroughly informed about what's in the New Testament ... not at all. You're at an advantage there I take it.

But I've been grappling with material, like Tony's and others, that suggest ideas about things that may be going on, i.e., that we are all immersed in, if you like, but may not be aware of; suggest ideas about processes in play, or processes that may be in play, in our lives.

Interesting stuff! Perhaps with greater understanding of such processes, at least where things ring true about such, a renewed lease on life will follow.

Thanks for your comments.

Cam

[MAC]

MAC: I have yet to read the F. Aster Barnwell books you kindly sent me. This is in no way deliberate, it is just with the writing of three books and various articles I have little spare time for additional reading. However I really must settle down to doing so in the next few weeks. I am sure that I will find both books fascinating.

Tony: No hurry in that regard. Happy to have sent the books along as a gift in any case. I'll be interested to see the final form Aster's re-release of his original book takes.

Many thanks for the Forum and your writings.

Cam

[Cochitlehua]